Valid Love
Discussions and interviews about all things love: Kink, Intimacy, and alternative relationships, including the relationship with yourself.
Valid Love
Holy Filters, Batman! Your Instagram Crush Doesn't Actually Look Like That
We discuss how media portrayals of sex create unrealistic expectations and impact our relationships, exploring everything from spontaneous versus responsive desire to the problems with hookup culture.
• Media often depicts sex as spontaneous, pretty, and instantly orgasmic when reality is much messier
• Casual sex is portrayed as the norm, which can be alienating for demisexual people who need emotional connection first
• Lack of communication and consent in media leads to poor models for healthy sexual relationships
• Sexual resiliency (handling rejection gracefully) is rarely shown in entertainment
• Romance novels and erotica often skip important aspects like scene planning and boundary setting
• Filters and curated online personas create unrealistic body expectations and damage self-image
• Dating apps have turned relationships into commodities where we're constantly trying to prove our worth
• Healthy relationships don't always start with an immediate spark—the "slow burn" can be equally meaningful
If you have any questions or feedback, reach out to us at podcast@validlove.org.
Welcome to Ballad Love. I'm Rebecca and I'm Leah, and today we have Alice joining us. Today, yay, hello. Alice was sitting in my office this morning going y'all recording a podcast. Today I was like, yeah, like you want me to join? Yeah, why not? And today we're talking about the influence of media on sexual norms and expectations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in part one I think we were more focused on relational impacts, so I think it's good to do a part two where we are talking more about, like, sexual impacts, because they are different.
Speaker 2:They are different. We're essentially doing an extended titbits. It feels like.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, I didn't even include titbits in this outline, so I was like this whole episode is about sex. Just so, just sex. Here it is your titbit episode all right.
Speaker 2:So how do we feel about how media portrays sex?
Speaker 3:terribly not great, uh, unrealistic, really pretty. There's like a lot of really pretty portrayals of sex and I don't know about the sex y'all are having, but it's not always pretty right it's a little too heterosexual in the media, if I'm correct. Well, yes, also super hetero for sure.
Speaker 2:I mean. My understanding of sex from media is man lays on woman. There's a couple, thrust Everyone loves it.
Speaker 3:Oh, we're all done. They come together every time. What a beautiful world.
Speaker 2:What a beautiful world Like. Getting off that fast is impressive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's never any proper foreplay.
Speaker 3:there's never any like I don't know, nothing like that so well, and I think that's part of the issue, right, is that? It sets up this um expectation that, like all, sex is spontaneous and should be spontaneous and, as we've learned and as we have maybe talked about in past episodes or we'll talk about in future episodes, there's spontaneous desire, there's responsive desire. Some people cannot just jump into things. A lot of people cannot jump into things quite like that right?
Speaker 2:Well, that's interesting because I'm thinking I talked about Grey's Anatomy a lot last time.
Speaker 3:I feel like they talk about a lot of relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but think about they're in high stress situations and they're always having sex. When I'm in a high stress situation, sex is the last thing on my mind, like I become more disconnected from my body, not connected, and so sex doesn't feel like ah, don't touch me. I'm stressed, right Versus. Some people can be fueled by that, and so it's just really interesting, right, that perspective of always being in a high stress situation yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of. I was thinking about this earlier that you know the rise and using new terms to describe things, right, that like things always existed, but we didn't have terms for them. So, like demisexual, right, like this realization that I myself was demisexual in media, it's like casual sex is so, it's like such a thing. That's how you fall in love, is you?
Speaker 2:have casual, casually stranger at a bar and then you run into them at work again. Work insert hospital, fire station like it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:Run into them at work and you fall in love and it's great. Well, and even like I was reflecting, reflecting on how media, even like, impacted my sexual exploration and me thinking that like, oh well, this is normal. Then, like casual sex is normal, there must be something weird or wrong with me that I'm not engaging in it, and so then I would try to engage in it. And the whole time I was like this just doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel right to me, it doesn't feel, you know, like it's just not, but that's, that's what's being portrayed all the time, that this is what it is yeah, and I think it can make you feel like something's wrong with you.
Speaker 2:So I I also identify as demisexual and I didn't even really understand that until like my mid to upper 20s, yeah, and so, even reflecting back, like it's like ah, you wouldn't mean to have sex with you.
Speaker 3:I don't know your favorite color, I don't know who you are, like that, ah, like no, don't touch me, don't look at me, um yeah, so it's just really interesting how that like casual perspective of sex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think something else that comes up again to be a sexual human that's very tied to my emotions with sex. I don't understand hate sex, like I feel like they show that on the media all the time. Oh, I understand.
Speaker 3:Oh my god I mean, there's just like I think it probably comes up later in some of the topics anyways, but um, what do you mean? Give you the vibe, yeah, explain hate sex because to me I'm like. I don't like you why?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't think it's like straight up dislike, but there's maybe like when there's an energy between two people and it's not necessarily I wouldn't even say it's necessarily hate, but there's like an attraction. And then there's like these parts that really conflict and there's just like a lot of tension and energy there, and so there's like one outlet for it and that's.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I mean, I've read about it in romance novels.
Speaker 3:I just I mean you don't have to have hate sex, um, but if you are attracted to someone and they also like, drive you a little nuts.
Speaker 3:That's also portrayed in media right like it's a huge portrayal in media that, yeah, the more like, uh, dysregulated someone gets you maybe, the more you guys should have sex, and I don't stand by that anymore. Right, I've done it, but I didn't love it. It's not super enjoyable in a lot of aspects, right? So, yeah, well, sex becomes a coping skill, exactly. And that's the same thing with gray's anatomy. Right, that's number one emotional masochism that you do.
Speaker 1:You still watch that are you okay? Okay, oh Okay. Oh, my God, I started watching Grey's Anatomy when I was way too young and like first career. I ever as a child was like yes. I was like I want to be a neuroscientist and I was like where did that come from? Why did I? Why did I watch Grey's Anatomy and think, oh, brains are real cool?
Speaker 3:But yeah, it's like that emotional dysregulation piece, right, and everyone like coping with dysregulation with their bodies, and now we know that somatic therapy is a thing and we don't have to have sex about it, right.
Speaker 2:How does that lead to problem sexual behaviors? Well, yeah problematic sexual behaviors. And so, leah, do you want to explain problematic sexual behaviors, sexual, behavior.
Speaker 3:I mean we're going to do a full episode on it, just right. But I mean, I think that's pretty much the gist is, we always want to, we want to be sensitive about the topic, right. But like, yeah, sometimes people do use sex as a coping skill, as people use a lot of things as a coping skill, but when we are doing that, we're not actually learning to like regulate ourselves. Um, it can. I mean it then promotes using other people's bodies as your coping skill, which is not good or conducive to healthy relationships with yourself or others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and there's this idea of consenting to the same purpose. Yeah Right. So if both of you are like, hey, this is a tool of dysregulation, you're both on the same page of that. Is it healthy? No, but y'all are at least both consenting Versus. One person is like, wow, this person I've had a crush on forever is finally taking interest in me. This means something. And the other person's like I'm using your body. They're not consenting to that act, and I think we see that in media quite a bit and it gets messy.
Speaker 3:It does get messy quite a bit, and it gets messy. It does get messy in a very fabricated way and again it teaches people that like, yeah, this is, this is the most optimal way to well, maybe not optimal, but this is a way to like utilize your emotions and like get them out. And it is, and it can be, if two people are consenting to that, being like the act right, like like when I was engaging in hate sex, like we all knew what that was, but, yeah, I guess it's like that.
Speaker 2:Informed consent piece, too, that is never talked about in media at all. No, no. And making sure relationships are on the same page. I talk about that in relationship therapy all the time, like are y'all both on the same page of what you're looking for? Sometimes we're just looking for an orgasm, sometimes we're looking for a connection. And so when we have those bids for connection, how are we intentional Like, oh, I may not be feeling sexual, but how do I make sure we connect Right Versus? If you're looking for an orgasm, I'll give you the bedroom and the toy, like go have fun, right, right. So what are we looking for? And I feel like that's something that we don't see. I feel like on TV a lot is one person requesting sex and the other person saying I'm good right now, thanks. It's usually a big like no, there's a big conflict, so you can't have sex, versus like I'm just tired.
Speaker 3:Well then, the also the other person like handling that gracefully.
Speaker 2:We're not seeing resiliency right Sexual resiliency and resiliency.
Speaker 2:Yes because we talk about all the time Like I feel like I can't say no to my partner, or like, when my partner says no, I feel really bad and I feel like a horrible person. I see this a lot with my like lesbian relationships that I work with. Is this idea I feel like a predator? Even asking for sex, right? Especially when someone like typically when you use the language spontaneous versus responsive desire Right, a lot of people with vulvas have responsive desire and also have spontaneous desire. But when you have someone with spontaneous desire and responsive desire and that spontaneous person's like, hey, I want sex, there's that guilt and shame. So, navigating that and then that resiliency of like okay, how can I tell you I don't want sex in a way that I'm not sparking this huge rejection? Sure, and then how do I then take that rejection and recognize it's not a personal issue? Sure, right, my partner's stressed she doesn't want to have sex. That's okay.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and I wonder if that could be more resolved with more communication in relationships, because even just being able to say like I know you didn't mean this, but like it makes me feel rejected and I'm trying to work through that and just letting your partner know about that, yeah, because people don't really know how to communicate.
Speaker 3:Or even being able to say like I'm feeling. I am feeling the sense of rejection. I know that of course you're that it doesn't have to be, about me, but can I get some like words ofation? You know I don't want you to feel pressure to have sex with me, but can you say something nice to me?
Speaker 2:yeah, I want that connection with you I want to feel in touch with you. How can we do that in a non-sexual way? Yeah, cuddles right. I encourage couples a lot of times to take showers together, like if that's a vibe for them. Non-sexual, but just enjoying that vulnerability of nakedness in a way that's not sexual, because I think sometimes we forget about bodily vulnerability outside of sex, right?
Speaker 2:So how do we build trust in each other's bodies when it's not related to sex? And sometimes we don't, especially if one partner starts rejecting physical advances a lot for fear of initiation of sex. So how do we encourage that? So let's make out for 15 minutes with no expectation of anything sexual. Let's make sure we're holding hands right. I hate holding hands, but like whatever physical connection, is for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just figuring that out and how to navigate that? Yeah, absolutely so. Resiliency is what we need to see more of, you know, for all the TV producers out there listening.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But seeing more sexual resiliency, because I even think about things like non-consent. How could we lessen the amount of sexual assaults that take place if we taught resiliency at a young age? Oh absolutely, and it doesn't have to just be sexual focus, but learning to hear no and soothe ourselves when we feel that rejection.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I mean, I think that would help, not just sexually right, but in terms of dating in general, of like being able to hear a no, taking it gracefully and self-soothing yeah, we move on.
Speaker 2:We move on. I do a lot of acceptance, commitment therapy in my session. So a lot of what. If they say no, what would it?
Speaker 3:mean if they said no, right, what does it mean about you? What story are you telling yourself? Because a lot of times no is just no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not this whole. It's not that deep as my, it's not that deep it's like my young 20 sister says it's not that deep.
Speaker 1:I really think that's a great like phrase, though, like because there's so many clients with anxiety, like high anxiety, where it's just like they haven't texted me in a day so I guess it's over and it's just like it's not that deep, it's not that deep.
Speaker 2:It really isn't that deep, it's okay. Yeah, it's not that deep, and that's okay, and that's okay okay and that's okay.
Speaker 3:I'm curious about this idea of unrealistic sexual chemistry. Unrealistic sexual chemistry, I think, maybe, is tied to toxic relationships themselves. Or this idea, maybe this idea that, like how sexual chemistry can form, how it can last, what it can look like, maybe even thinking in terms of people who, oh, let's talk about the spark, right, I feel like we also, oh, my god, probably talk about the spark a lot, but like that's a that's, that's a calling card for a lot of people. They're like, oh, they leave a date. They're like, oh, like, well, there wasn't a spark, which to me means not only like sexual chemistry, but some form of chemistry, whether that's emotional, mental, sexual. It's usually like a combination, right, and we forget about the slow burn that can come with healthy relationships, and it's not to say that healthy relationships still can't start with a spark. But we have to realize that when we are meeting someone and like, experiencing a very intense amount of like, spark or attraction to them, that could be an attachment, wound signal.
Speaker 1:That can be so many other things other than what we're like, uh, interpreting it as in the moment it makes total sense, and it could also be like misinterpreted anxiety or misinterpreted bad feelings about the person, where, if you don't really sit with it and ask yourself, like why am I feeling like this, you can interpret it as butterflies, when in reality there's something really off that you're not thinking about.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and I mean even think about the like, excitement, arousal, fear system. They're all so closely linked absolutely and all. When all of that is stirred up, you are feeling, you're feeling something and it certainly feels like a spark and it may. It just may not be what you like think that it is. And, again, healthy relationships absolutely deserve, you deserve someone that you are like sexually attracted to and emotionally attracted to and mentally attracted to. So it's not to say that like healthy relationships have no spark. But sometimes it is okay to like let it slow burn, meet someone and if there's like, not that initial sense of chemistry, maybe just giving it a bit and letting it grow with, like you getting to know someone and like seeing if a spark can ignite in a different, new way than what it's looked like to you previously.
Speaker 1:A spark can ignite in a different, new way than what it's looked like to you previously. Yeah, I think there's a lot of pressure in like having relationships work out. I think the best piece of advice I've given other people is like act like this is a friendship you're trying to form and just be like curious about the other person rather than thinking are you going to be my life partner? Are you going to be perfect for me? Are we going to be my life partner? Right, are you going to be perfect for me? Are you going to be? Are we going to be perfectly sexually compatible? Because at least if you get to know them and you decide it's not for you, like you've a either, like made a friend or b, you're just like okay, that's not my type of person and that's cool um super hetero question but and only linked to what we're talking about.
Speaker 3:But what do you think about like women and men friendships, some men having like a perspective that, like women and men actually like can't be friends? I know we're like veering into a different territory here, but it just brought it in when Harry met Sally.
Speaker 2:That's the premise of it. Have either of y'all seen when Harry Met Sally? Not in a long time, it's not like I mean. So Harry Met Sally. That's the premise of. Have either of y'all seen one? Not in a long time, it's not like I mean. So an annual rewatch doesn't happen. Um, I mean, meg Ryan was just having an orgasm over Mayo in a Superbowl commercial anyway. Um, okay, sorry guys. Um, so that's the whole premise of when Harry Met.
Speaker 2:Sally is like, can women and men be friends? And so it starts out with them leaving college and she's like, no, they can't be friends. And he's like, why I'm friends with you? And it just changes as they run into each other over the course of their lives and they're best friends. And then at the end they're best friends that happen to fall in love. Oh so they do kiss, they, but at the very end, like it's very much a like we, we are best friends. And there's a lot of times where that romantic attraction is not there. And then it does develop, but we're talking over like 10, 15 years, not instantaneous, and a lot of that. You could actually call it trauma bonding, because they both got dumped, like his wife cheated on him and left. Her boyfriend broke up with her and immediately got engaged to someone else, like it just. They bonded over that together and then developed relationships. But it's a fun movie. Again, she has an orgasm in a deli. That's the I'll have what she's having line Nice, that's where that comes from.
Speaker 3:Who doesn't love an orgasm in a deli, orgasm in a sub?
Speaker 2:Anyways, I think maybe that's like a topic for a different no, I think it's a good question, but, and if we querify it a little bit, clarify it and think about friendships with exes of the same sex, right, like, what do those look like? And so I've known people who've been like, yeah, I still live with my ex-girlfriend because we signed a lease and we're friends now, how else I see me making a face?
Speaker 1:I thought you were pointing at me and I was like oh my god, how did you know? I never mentioned that, not one yeah, it's also different now because, I mean, times are hard, times are hard. How can you break your lease? I don't have the money for that, so yeah anyway no, that's fair, I think people can be friends.
Speaker 2:I think what's hard for me to conceptualize as a in my personal life versus professional life. I have a shut off valve and so either you are like romantic minded or you're not. There's no spectrum for me. It's in or out like pretty instant in my brain and so I've heard you know when people talk about, or y'all may not know what you're talking about, but like in college, like gay women making out with straight women, like when they're drunk, and it's just like Ooh, that joke like in my brain. If you're straight, that doesn't make sense to me. You're straight, like you are automatically in that non-romantic category.
Speaker 2:And so for me for friendships once it's you are your friend. That's never going to cross my mind.
Speaker 3:I've made out with all of my girlfriends. That's fair. That's why I'm just dropping that up there fascinating how brains work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brains are just so different, like I'm just so rigid that I think it goes back. We were joking before the start of like that expectation versus scheduling right, like rigidity, um, and I'm not rigid, but I your brain. But once I hit expectations, there's an expectation, got it and I can't, I can't adjust from there shall we move into erotica, your favorite, your favorite zone?
Speaker 3:We should probably cut out that noise. No, I liked it A little enthusiastic. I liked the noise and everyone know who you are erotica queen.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, it's interesting we talked about erotica last time a bit in books. I was never joking Like I pretty much only read romance novels and fantasy romance and erotica, and Alice is like I read none of this.
Speaker 1:I read nonfiction and the occasional fantasy novel, I think, and sci-fi, but I feel like that's just fantasy for different kinds of nerds.
Speaker 2:I saw an ad for a gothic horror romance novel. Did you um? But I forgot the book. But I thought about you. That's not helpful to me at all. The thought came. I would love to read that whenever that was when I find it again, I'll send it to you. Perfect, I think we have normalized romance and erotica novels.
Speaker 3:I really think since 50 shades of gray, I mean before that but I mean that one rice has existed for a a long time. Rice has been around, but no, that was like such a big, that was such a big one I guess, and I think, the mainstream, the mainstream yeah, of people learning that being tied up is hot sometimes, like is this really what did it for us?
Speaker 2:but it's funny, I actually never read those books. 50 shadesty Shades of Grey.
Speaker 3:I read the first one and I could not read more.
Speaker 2:Did you read them?
Speaker 1:No, and I'm going to pray that my family doesn't listen to this ever, but my aunt, who's super duper Catholic, loved them. It was a really weird time because I was like you.
Speaker 2:Of all people, Because I was like you Of all people. I think the amount of women over 60 that really enjoyed them threw me for a loop and. I was just like I'm good.
Speaker 1:I think it's the wild lifelong repression, especially if you're religious. For sure it's like oh wow, actually this is hot, I'm going to fully embrace it.
Speaker 2:There's a romance novel out right now. I have not read it it's not in my interest, to be honest, but it's called Priest and it's about a priest billionaire who's being a priest. They're always billionaires, yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, I wonder where they got that money.
Speaker 2:Extortion the deadpan delivery, um, but it's definitely become more more popular, right. I mean, we have a whole romantic genre now, oh for sure, where we talk about that combination between fantasy and romance, and it's. I think what's really cool is it's gotten a lot of people into fantasy that otherwise had not been, because you're taking some of those tropes from romance novels, novels, not novels, um, but then you're getting a whole world right, yeah, and so it's. It's just really interesting and I think it can be empowering, can really empowering to your sexuality and who you are as a person.
Speaker 2:But it also is problematic, right, because I was actually I've talked about this, I'm a part of a book club and we've talked about this recently is those problematic narratives of like so we call it like dubious consent, of like this person is technically consenting, but they don't understand what's really happening. And so typically, what happens in some of these like, especially in the darker side of these novels, is that I am going to do all this kinky stuff to you, your body likes it, so you think you like it. It's like no, that's still assault, that's yeah, and we're normalizing assault, right. You can't like, pull out a whip and start whipping her and she just orgasms. It's not working that way. There's a conversation of I'm going to use the whip, are you okay with that, right? Do you have a safe word? What does this look like? And instead they just start going to town and she happens to orgasm. So she must like it, it must be okay.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think this is a great, great, great way to bring up scene planning and setting anyways, right, like none of that, at least in the books that I've read, which, to be fair, are like limited because I don't read erotica but scene setting is not mentioned, it's not talked about yet. Like you're saying, people are just like going into these new acts and like interpreting them through whatever lens comes up there. But like in kink, planning a scene and talking about it beforehand and setting the scene is like it's a whole part of it, so that everyone can know like what's about to happen. It's talked about, there is a safe word, um, full informed consent is going on, and I mean it's not to say that there aren't people who are engaging and like fucking around and finding out, right, but like it's not necessarily the safest way to go about it, especially if you're like new. It's like one thing if you're with a partner. You've been with a partner for a long time.
Speaker 2:You know each other pretty well. But a lot of these I'm pointing to the screen, like everyone can see that but a lot of these romantic novels she's a virgin, oh yeah, and he's a billionaire, and he's a billionaire. And that's not all of them, let me be honest, but like a big trope, right, and it's so funny. I'll tell you so. I was reading a book where this girl's dating three athletes and they're kind of dating each other and anyway, there's a lot of sex. The athletes are dating each other. Oh, it's sexy, it's real fun. Okay, one of them's straight and so he just kind of watches the other stuff. Nice, but it's funny because what I appreciated in one of the scenes is that the straight dude of the four people stops and goes. I just want to confirm nothing is going into me, right, but I appreciated that check-in and they do a lot of planning, as you would with four people like you're gone.
Speaker 2:I need a script, we need to do who will be where. So navigating that right. But I appreciated that moment of like let me check in to make sure that my boundaries aren't crossed, yeah, and everyone's on the same page. Love that, and I think we need to see more of that in erotica. Is that navigating? Because it actually it can be comedic. Right in that moment it was definitely comedic relief between this intensity that's building up with the four of them, but also just letting us know hey, let's do a boundary check. Let's do a boundary check. What are you not into? What are you into? And so I've read a novel where she said do not kiss my ear. And I appreciated that, just a little tidbit. And so like that boundary was set and okay, here we go. Setting boundaries does not have to stop the sexual flow boundaries are hot and necessary.
Speaker 2:First, yes, the sexual safety, emotional, so you're are hot and necessary For sexual safety, emotional safety, especially if you're having sex with three men, especially if you're having sex with three men.
Speaker 3:You have to communicate.
Speaker 1:I have seen like More of like scene setting Before like ethical porn. I think it was like a BDSM scene With, like Nikki Hartz and they like had a full clip of them going over boundaries beforehand. I think that is so essential to show because there's so much like abusive, exploitative porn online. It's kind of horrifying.
Speaker 2:It's terribly horrifying. But yeah, that navigating ahead of time, like, yeah, he does have his hands on her throat, but here's what limits she set, here's the safe word, here's her sign right, tapping twice or whatever it is. All that work went in ahead of time so the scenes can look gruesome Gruesome is really the wrong word, I mean, it could be gruesome doing what you're doing, but that negotiation piece ahead of time and it's interesting because I have a conversation in my relationships that I work with Very much a relationship of any kind is just a negotiation. Oh, 100%, everything's a negotiation. Who's picking up the kids is a negotiation, right. When do we want to have sex this week is a negotiation, yeah, hey, how are you going to make sure both of our needs are being met? It's all negotiation, for sure. So why wouldn't sex be that way? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm curious how we normalize unrealistic sex acts, how we what Normalize unrealistic sex acts? I feel like that is porn in and of itself. Yeah, yeah, and I think it'd be hard, because we have such shitty sex education in the us, especially in the south, and a lot of my queer clients think they have sexual problems when they're older because their only form of sex education was porn. No one taught us how to have anal sex, so we watched porn. And then there becomes the. Now my body is tied to, like my sexual responses are tied to what I see in porn versus relationships I'm building, and all of that can absolutely be navigated, but it does influence how we see ourselves. And all of that can absolutely be navigated, but it does influence how we see ourselves and I'm curious how it also influences people with body image and performance anxiety. Again, I see this a lot with gay men who learn about sex through porn.
Speaker 3:Right, what are your thoughts and feelings?
Speaker 2:Allison, I think I'm up for you.
Speaker 1:I wish I could see Allison's face Also the deer in the headlights I love to be expressive.
Speaker 3:It's okay. I was just checking in because I want to make sure that you have moments, um, but yeah, the, the body image and the performance anxiety, I see that. So so much in in counseling definitely not even not even in terms of porn itself, but it certainly does come up of.
Speaker 3:I mean, I guess earlier we were talking about maybe the other side of it, right with like media and movies and like really passionate sex that like is not lasting super long but yet everyone's like coming and everyone's like whatever, and then, yeah, you have then like porn where people can like go for however long they're going to go for Right, and it's just like it's such a, it's such a weird spectrum to put people on to know what would feel good for themselves, I guess, and I guess it's like comparison culture.
Speaker 2:Like in two different extremes. Yeah, absolutely. And then comparing and contrasting our own partners and people we've been with before right yeah, yeah, and body image is huge, I mean for men and women and everyone.
Speaker 3:Anyone, right like we're seeing bodies in porn and it's represented in.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's all bodies represented in porn, right, but like but at the same time I feel like the mainstream porn industry is pretty much very standard same bodies, hairless, size, zero, yes, and I've had so many friends and people in general tell me I can't focus on sex because I'm a bit too busy thinking about how I'm looking. So they can never fully be in the moment because they're so ashamed of how they look while having sex that they just can't enjoy it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's such a good point, and I hear that a ton too of. Just like now we're not even present in our bodies because we're so worried about what our bodies look like instead of. You know, if everyone was just getting real deep into your body there, it's going to be great for everyone. That's where the best stuff is, you know.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And I think something else to talk about is that psychological impact of porn, like ethical porn can be a great tool, like there can be some positive uses for porn. I think the problem we see is when we're talking about stimulation and like high, like how high stimulating it is, yeah, and then also the thing is, eventually you're gonna have to get more, get more.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's like anything else where you're yeah, high, highly stimulated in any sense, like you're gonna need more and more and more and more of it and then and then it just starts losing it's pizzazz it's it is.
Speaker 2:Then it gets wild, like, and I'm not yacking anyone's yum, oh right, especially as long as consent's involved. But like, think about the more taboo porn, like incest, right, like there's such a niche and it's because people have to build and build and build and build and build. And so, okay, now I need taboo things to get me going and again, my hand gestures are far and wide.
Speaker 2:But and then how do we reflect on that psychological fact? So if you're someone who's into more taboo things and like again, incest porn has come up before, does that mean you want to sleep with a family member nine times out of ten? No, it doesn't mean that. But then there becomes a question for yourself of oh why am I turned on by this? And then that spiral of guilt and shame when it's really not about the incest, it's about the taboo, it's about the.
Speaker 3:I need more well, it's about the brain craving like newness and novelty, and like now you've, like, over simulated it, you've exposed it to too much of the same thing and now it needs something else. So it's not even about like what you're actually into. It's just the sense of like.
Speaker 1:It's a dopamine system, it's a reward system, it's a addictive system speaking to newness and novelty, um, I think people really try to find it purely in the bedroom, but like if you go and have a new experience with your partner, like it's gonna like a lot of times, just kind of like re-up things so that you can have more of a good time. I think people look for that really extreme, like sexual things, because they're not getting it elsewhere sometimes.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, man, I preach that all the time. Like having new experiences with your partner in a non-sexual sense. I'm like pretty sure that that's my love language. Like that's not even in like the quote-unquote love languages, but yeah, like experiencing life, experiencing moments of like wonder and awe with someone else like present. For that, like that's dopamine baby right there and that's connection, and that. Go to the trampoline park.
Speaker 2:Go to the trampoline park or hike somewhere new you know, like last time my partner was at a trampoline park or hike somewhere new. You know, like the last time my partner was at a trampoline park and jumped, she tore her acl. Okay, we are not going to the trampoline park stay away from the trampoline parks.
Speaker 2:But no, I. And because what's happening is in those moments of wonder and awe, we're growing, and something about growing with our partner is really powerful versus growing in different directions, right. So how do we have that awe and growth together? That's the hot stuff right there. I have literally sent people on dates to a sex toy store.
Speaker 3:What? Just for the novelty?
Speaker 2:No for clients. Yeah, okay, go explore things together. Feel what they feel like, see what you would want to try I'm not saying you've got to go buy stuff, yeah what they feel like, see what you would want to try. I'm not saying you gotta go buy stuff, yeah, but just going and having those conversations and exploring. Because we talked alice, you said this earlier communication being the most key thing here.
Speaker 3:Let's grab some forced communication oh for sure, the sex toy store.
Speaker 1:You're definitely gonna have conversations at a sex toy store and it's funny because I I think people think think it'll be awkward, but it's like you're literally going to a store where people know they're selling sex toys. Everyone knows what's happening there, like everyone knows, so you can just talk about it. Yeah, that's all I have to say. I just can't do it. I just can't. It's too awkward, it's like it's just sex, it's okay, it's okay, I just love that you.
Speaker 3:You were like, oh, like, go to a trampoline park, and I was like, yeah, I send couples like to go on like a new hike and Rebecca was like I send them to the sex park.
Speaker 2:Three new great ideas for you. Exactly A whole spectrum of things to do Wholesome, active, sexy.
Speaker 1:Wholesome active, sexy would be a great name for like a brand or something. Wholesome active, sexy T-shirt.
Speaker 1:Our idea Actually, actually brand or something wholesome, active, sexy t-shirt. It's our idea actually. Actually I was gonna make a t-shirt for, um, my friends in the social work program, because everybody they always every year it's like, please buy this, like fundraise for your social work school, and it'll just be like the label of the school or like this ugly graphic design. I'm like I literally do graphic design. But one day one of my friends was like actually it was Kenzie and she went I feel like social works bitch and I was like I'm going to put that on a shirt and then everyone in the program should buy it and we should all wear it and say it's from UNCW.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I want to start my sex toy store. Yes, and that's my hyper fixation right now. We'll see if I ever actually do it or not, because I have been told retail is a whole thing and it is a whole thing. I recognize it's a whole thing, but I'm really into it right now. Um, but called just positive vibes and then have cutouts of dildos that are like you're doing great. I actually love that. I'm so proud of you. You deserve that orgasm like damn.
Speaker 2:We can have positive vibes positive, vibes cool okay, just just you wait and no one steal my name or I'll come for you. I was gonna say you gave your whole business plan away. Well, I mean, that is the extent of the business. That's all I've got so far.
Speaker 1:You could just make stickers.
Speaker 2:Sorry, off topic off topic you know, it's really interesting because I I liked that idea of like wholesome, active and sexy. I will say something that's been a challenge for me in my personal life is I talk about sex a lot. That doesn't mean I want to have sex with everyone. That doesn't mean that I am engaging all the time. So it's been really interesting because I talk about these things and it's exciting because that's what I talk about every day for work, right.
Speaker 2:Like I had one day where we literally talked about anal sex for three sessions in a row unrelated in context, but literally my life was anal sex. That day Flared bases. We do this every episode.
Speaker 3:Just, I mean, somehow anal sex comes up every episode and we have to say because honestly, it comes up in my every day for me, which is, which is great.
Speaker 2:But it's just really interesting how, like, when we talk about sex, when we normalize these conversations about sex, they're really like. I think it's a good thing, I think we need to normalize it, but because when we talk about sex in terms of media, it's about how horny someone is and how we're going to get sex. 95 percent of the time, me talking about sex has nothing to do with my own horniness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just like I find it fascinating. It's so rare that you'll find a show that portrays sexuality very like realistically.
Speaker 1:I remember years ago I found the show I think it was on Netflix called easy oh yeah, and that one, if I remember correctly, had a really good like accurate, kind of awkward, kind of fun scenes between couples that were just so normal and I was so shocked because it was like the first time I'd ever seen like somebody be awkward and giggle and like people of different body shapes having sex on like a tv show and it wasn't like automatic orgasm or like overplayed I don't know scenario.
Speaker 1:Good plug yeah, good plug for a show that you're saying like, showed it pretty, like more realistically yeah, and it doesn't just like focus on sex, but some of the episodes are about like people's sex lives and their relationships and, um, I just remember it being really like eye-opening me, like, oh my god, there's a whole new world yeah, and I love that we have at least some examples of things that are like portraying things in more healthy standards.
Speaker 3:I don't, because it's easy to talk about the ones that like don't, but we, I think we are moving, and have moved somewhat in media, where it's like becoming more normal to start having stories that are like more representative of of more healthy relationships and sexual behaviors, because laughing and sex is a good thing.
Speaker 2:Like sex doesn't have to be that serious all the time.
Speaker 3:It can be playful.
Speaker 2:It's not that deep it depends on how deep you want it All right All right.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying so, speaking of what did you say? Having being corny and getting sex, Anyways, we're moving into hookup culture and instant gratification. We talked about how dating apps have really like changed dating and romance and relationships, but we didn't really get I mean, we didn't really get into the hookup culture aspect of it, how it's impacted sexual behaviors. So let's go there, let's dive in.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's an expectation of sex quickly, Obviously.
Speaker 1:that's what hookup culture is.
Speaker 2:But I want people to reflect on relationships they've had in their lives. What sex was better? The very first encounter you had with that person, oh god. Or at the peak of emotional intimacy was the sex better?
Speaker 3:oh, easy answer for me.
Speaker 2:I think we all agreed there the first time we have sex with a partner. It can be a learning moment. Rarely is it the best sex of your life, for sure, right, because you're learning each other. You're learning each other's bodies yeah, right you're. You're learning who you are emotionally. There's so many pieces to that, and so I feel like the problem with hookup culture is you're not getting the best of the person because they don't know your body, they don't know you, and if you're not confident to say, hey, that's not my clit, then what are we doing?
Speaker 3:right, like rubbing my thigh doesn't help well, and it's really helped even like feed into this idea of like sex as a coping skill right now it's just like at our well, I mean, I guess in different contexts it was easily available in other ways, but not as I don't think, you know, like not as at our fingertips. It's just like, oh, I'm like feeling a little squirrely today. I guess I'll hop on an app and like fuck someone.
Speaker 2:You know right, I don't know, or go to the sex toy store or go specifically mine when I have it specifically or just sex toy store and then when we're going on these apps, and again we go back to that idea of informed consent I'm looking for a forever person, you're looking for a hookup. We're on an app that's facilitating technically both. And what if?
Speaker 3:we're not on the same page. Well, you're saying something that would. So I think to some extent, of course, some people are on those apps being honest, but I think a lot of the time, people are on those apps and they're not being honest, right, because they know that a lot of people will be looking for relationships and they know that they maybe themselves don't want one, but they do want to have sex, and so then it becomes now we're moving into, like this new, the new term of situationships, right Like where this is how they form and it's because everyone's not really being all that honest with themselves or each other, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I feel like dating apps are this sort of self-marketing that we have to do in late stage.
Speaker 2:Capitalism to like sorry a little to show people that we're like, valuable in some way, and it's sad it is sad and we look at how are we rating people as valuable? We, we joked last episode of like height for men, right, it's like if you're not tall, you're, you don't have the same value. Yeah, um, which is bullshit. We love short kings. Always gonna plug and think about like again, just different bodies, right, your body doesn't have value if it doesn't fit this narrative. And so when we are looking at it through that capitalistic lens, what is it Dating with kids? Right? Like, oh, that takes away value. Like there's so many different things that take away our value and really they're just fucking apps. They're not here to assign our value.
Speaker 2:We are the ones that determine our own value, and so how do we navigate that when everyone else is still looking at this capitalistic value system?
Speaker 3:I don't have an answer for you. No, I was going to say I was like that's, yeah, we don't have an answer. And then yeah, it like makes intimacy and connection into this like game, right. It's like there's no sense of like intentionality or like seriousness around it when you can just swipe through an app for fucking hours Hours you could, depending on what city you're in, you know Well and how do we navigate hookup culture with having experienced?
Speaker 1:sexual trauma. Yeah, that's really difficult too, because people don't want to have to go into a hookup if they really want that. Being like I have all these issues, but most people have experienced some sort of like sexual drama.
Speaker 2:I may be triggered by X. Please don't do Y.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Are we having those conversations? Yeah, as a first time hookup. Or is that something that's more intimacy building? Because I think about the importance of aftercare and kink, right, that's so important. What does aftercare and a hookup look like? Mm-hmm, yeah, how often do people experience drops? If you've experienced sexual trauma, what happens when you're triggered in a hookup? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, and maybe that just has to do with like wider literacy on like how to take care of other people, how to care for others, how to not contribute to like a really shameful and traumatic sexual I don't know existence in the West, I think.
Speaker 3:But I mean, yeah, I think you're naming. You know, if we talk about, like, the pros and cons of easy access to partners, that's on the list right Like, yeah, there should be a trauma informed hookup certification.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I am trauma informed. You have your sexual trauma.
Speaker 3:I am informed on how to help with that while we're having sex well and because I think, especially like during these episodes, it may be easy to interpret that like we are somehow like looking down on people who want like short-term sexual satisfaction, or who aren't looking for relationships, but still like want sexual fulfillment in some way, and like we're certainly not. It's just more so about knowing yourself, knowing it, for it's like for anything else, right like why are we doing what we're doing? What is it? What is it giving us, how is it serving us and how are we communicating about it with others, so that at least everyone like knows what's happening?
Speaker 2:there's nothing wrong with wanting to hook up. No, there's nothing wrong with casual sex. There's nothing wrong with these things if you're being honest with yourself and your person that you're like engaging with. Absolutely right. It all comes down to consent and communication. At the end of the day, you do you boo.
Speaker 3:I mean because it's totally valid to like be in a place in your life where you don't want a committed relationship, you're invested in a whole lot of other things and you still have like an arousal system and like still want to feel close to someone in that way for what it is, and that's fine Again, just more so about communication, so that we can find others, because there will be others who are exactly there, you know.
Speaker 2:And I think, on the flip side of that, when I work with a lot of clients who struggle with codependency, making sure you're honest with yourself.
Speaker 2:Right tendency, yep, of making sure you're honest with yourself. Yep, right, because what I can foresee is you have one person that's like, hey, I can have a situationship, I can have this, this is the only thing I have in my life, and the other person saying, okay, I want that too. Do you want that because you are in that place and you can have a no strings attached? Or do you want that because you're going to try and change their mind? Right, right, and so I think, being very honest with where you are to yourself, for sure. So it's okay to say you know what. I really want this person, but they're not in a place to want me the way I want them, and so I need to walk away. Self-love, baby. We love it, we want to see it. You will never change them. No, stop trying.
Speaker 1:I think people are afraid of like that, like firsthand pain, feeling of like well, I'm not going to get what I want, but then you end up dragging it out and hurting yourself more in the long run.
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean, I've seen people follow someone for years who was very clear. I'm never giving this to you, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's unfair to yourself to continue to pursue something that you're not going to have.
Speaker 2:Well, and when we're codependent, when we're having these type behaviors, like it's emotional manipulation?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, on the flip side, right is we've created ourselves to be essentially emotionally manipulating a person to try and get them to be in a place where we want them to be. And that's my point is it goes both ways right. So, being honest with where you are and where you want to be, and if that doesn't align, that's okay, it's okay to walk away, but trying to convince them of something else is not okay. And I think we see that a lot with like I feel like I'm the asshole that never wanted the relationship, but it's that emotional manipulation of because I've been told I'm the asshole.
Speaker 3:But you were honest.
Speaker 2:You were honest, yeah, and that's all we can ask for. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the unfortunate truth is like you can see somebody and be like I think they want a relationship. They're just afraid. But it's not your job to make them unafraid. Yeah, your job to make them unafraid, to like, change them or convince them that it's it's time for them to settle down with you, because maybe a they don't want to settle down or be like yeah, they need to work on that themselves, because you're not going to fix that for them absolutely we cannot fix someone and but we keep trying.
Speaker 2:We keep trying different episode codependency forever.
Speaker 3:I want to talk about what do you want to talk?
Speaker 2:about all the things, everything talking about online personas. Yeah, curated. I admittedly don't use a lot of social media like I follow my little reels and I think they're funny and I live my life and, of course, they're instagram reels, so they're like three weeks late from the tiktok, so I'll show I'll show people my life reels and they're like yeah, that was popular like two weeks ago and I'm like yeah, but I'm just finding it but the idea of filters and editing and how we curate sexual desirability, yeah how does that impact people?
Speaker 3:do you think? I mean, I think it.
Speaker 1:I think filters really fuck with people they're so bad I refuse to use them. They mess up my brain. They mess up other people's brains. I don't like.
Speaker 3:I like can officially say, my brain is a little like fucked up from using filters and I also think, well, I actually know, because I looked it up, because I was like why, when I like take a picture of myself without a filter, like why does it look like that? Because, like, I don't think that I like, and it's because the cameras have actually gotten so so good in other ways but they are actually now so good that, like, when you take a picture without a selfie and you look at it and you're like what the fuck? And it's because, like it's it is, it's like showing more quote unquote imperfections. The cameras are just too good and they're actually not meant for selfies, is basically. What I learned is that, like they're getting really good at like the photography aspect, um, and you're gonna look good, like further away from the camera, you're gonna look more like yourself, but like up close, it actually does kind of like change how you look does that make sense?
Speaker 1:am I making any sense?
Speaker 3:I had no clue that it. I mean, I didn't Google it. So I was like like this is so concerning to me. I knew they were good. I didn't know they were that good, but that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, they're just like picking up on a lot more like imperfections, yeah.
Speaker 2:And now you're like looking at them much closer. And then when self-esteem is built on filters and not what I actually look like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I personally have not participated in body editing, but I do know that that's a thing and that there are like apps that you can specifically mold parts of your body. Do you know what I'm?
Speaker 1:talking about. That's so wild. The only time I've ever done that was I was curious to see what I would look like without boobs and so I was like let me do this it was. It was interesting, very appropriate use of the change my brain a little bit in a what way?
Speaker 3:in a good way, in a good way, and that's a useful, you know, that's a useful way to use it. Um, yeah, but a lot of people are using them to like, yeah, portray themselves to look differently, yeah, then, then then they look and then that's yeah being put out there because apps are. So we can, we can say that we're on the apps, all we want to like, but we all know that there has to be I don't maybe I'm like misspeaking on this, but there's like a sexual undertone always.
Speaker 1:You're increasing your value.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, I don't think everyone falls into that trap and utilizes that way, but it's something we're all aware of, whether it's top of the brain or not, and so I think people are curating this image, and that's still an undertone of it. I think I'm just saying words at this point, am I?
Speaker 2:making sense? I don't think. So, okay, cool, but we're increasing our value, yeah, and so how do I increase my value? And I don't know, because I am obviously like 95 years old. I look great for me. It's amazing I use all the filters. No, I'm just kidding, I wouldn't. I could not tell you how to use a filter. But I'm also curious what happens when you show up at the date and all your pictures have been filters.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's a, it's a legitimate concern that most people have at this point right, like a lot there's. It's now. There's now a trust aspect in meeting up in person and this is for everyone, but I think maybe like dudes would say it more of like you know, is this what does this woman look like? Because I know that there's so many tools that can like be used you know, yeah, but I think apps in and of themselves.
Speaker 3:You keep saying like prove your worth right, and even in when we're talking about like codependency or all these other dating aspects, if you are I don't know know, I'm like leaving my like prove my worth arrow, like just meet someone organically and have them like like me for me and then like that's, that's your dance party's work yeah, like I don't want to have to, like, sell myself anymore, like I'm not like a fucking commodity.
Speaker 3:None of us are commodities, right so, but we in late stage capitalism it certainly feels like everything has been commodified, including ourselves.
Speaker 2:Therapy.
Speaker 1:Go to therapy. Go to therapy. Therapy, build community. Go to trans dance parties. Go to trans dance parties. I hear that's where it's at. It's where it's at for sure.
Speaker 2:But seriously, if this is something that y'all are struggling with, I always suggest therapy, especially therapists who are well-versed in relationships and navigating that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's all leave our prove our worth era and step into like something else.
Speaker 2:And so how do we find that worth intrinsically and a therapist can help you do that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It has to come from within, first and foremost, always and a lot of that work will be like getting in touch with like how you actually feel about things and actually finding out what that authenticity is for you, because you can't be happy in a relationship where you're just pretending to be perfect for the other person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that shit gets exhausting it is exhausting, and then you end up becoming resentful of them or yourself, and and this is what I tell clients, and Alice has heard me say this before If you are resenting someone in your relationship, that's your fault, not theirs, damn. Because if you communicated what's going on, have you gotten on the same page? Have you taken the steps right? I can be mad that my partner doesn't make the bed. I never make the bed, so I'm not throwing shade. I can be mad my partner's not making the bed every morning, but have I told my partner that I like the bed? Have I made that ask? Have I communicated my needs? And if they can't meet my needs, have we negotiated how to make this work? So maybe it's, I will make the bed, but then I need you to make lunch for the day.
Speaker 3:And I think a lot of people would come back and be like well, I have communicated and they're still not, and they're still not. And like there's such a line here and it's not, there's such a line here. But sometimes we do have to ask the question of like how have I played a part in my own suffering?
Speaker 3:And if someone has consistently told me or showed me that they can't show up in the ways I've asked or we've talked about. Then what am I still doing here? Why have I still made the decision to stay here and to keep trying to like, change someone We've veered off into?
Speaker 2:No, but I think these are valid things though. Right, because I think at the end of the day, it's negotiation, and if your partner can't negotiate with you, then see a relationship therapist to have someone else facilitate the negotiation. See a relationship therapist to have someone else facilitate the negotiation, sure, and then at that point you can decide is this something I'm willing to give up, that the bed's ever going to be made, or do I need to move on? Yeah, right, and there's that radical acceptance of my partner's never going to make the bed. But you know what my partner makes lunches, and that has value too. So maybe I'll make the bed. My partner will make the lunches, and that has value too.
Speaker 3:So maybe I'll make the bed, my partner make the lunches and that's our negotiation. Oh, I see how we got here. I was like how did we get from online personas to this? And it was the proving your worth, okay. I was like where did we? Where did we go?
Speaker 2:wrong? Where did we can't communicate that you like the bed made and you're mad at your partner for not making the bed, whose fault is?
Speaker 3:Well, and if you can't take a picture without a filter, then you're upset with how that goes. Honey, honey.
Speaker 1:Maybe, and if we're bringing it back to sex too, like you need to communicate what you like and don't like in sex, otherwise you're going to be miserable. While it's nice to have someone around who intuitively knows what you need, they're not always going to be so in tune with you, and that, on their part, is very people-pleasing. I've noticed, like anybody who is very like in tune with their partner to a point where, like everything's perfect, they never have to communicate, it's just not. They're kind of acting like an NPC. They're not really like living life, they're just kind of like constantly thinking about what their partner needs, and that's not fair to them no, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:It's too much. And going back to media specifically, as you talk about this, what do you think of? In a lot of romance novels, the guy just knows where her clitoris is. Oh my god, he just knows. And like, oh wow, he's a brilliant lover, he knows. It's also okay to say hey, it's here. And if they haven't found it, for six months have you been sleeping with them? Have you pointed it?
Speaker 3:out. Here it is. Please don't sleep with someone for six months if they don't know where you're like. Tell them where it is. Please, just don't do that to yourself. All bodies are different. Yeah, all Bodies are different. I do want to jump on both of those things and then bring it even further back to a non-sexual aspect of media in relationships, but also how that in and of itself is a trope of like. I mean a man written by a woman, right, but like he is so good at anticipating her needs and he just like reads her really well. And I am like these are the ones that I'm a sucker for, where it's like like, oh, like she doesn't even really have to like say much because she's just so known, and he's just like no, and it's like that's not real life, like that's you have to like tell people where you're at and what's happening, and if you don't know yourself, how the hell do you expect your partner to be able to anticipate your wants and needs?
Speaker 3:and yeah, doesn't it sound lovely to be in a relationship where you don't have to do any of the hard communication or, like step forward into conflict and someone just knows. Yeah, that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful, beautiful dream, but that's not years of a really years of a relationship and it's even, and that's just not.
Speaker 3:It's not a reality. We have to. We have to step forward into understanding that, like, avoiding conflict is avoiding intimacy, and we need to step forward into intimacy, which means stepping forward into conflict resolution. Anyways, we went so many, we have been all over the place and I love it I love it so much.
Speaker 2:Chaos. How do we reframe how media has impacted us. What do you mean like? Can we undo the influence?
Speaker 1:sure, when you've grown up with something your entire life, say you've been indoctrinated into something, as we're all surrounded by media constantly. Once you realize that's where it's at it's kind of a constant undoing you can get to a point where naturally you're somewhere else mentally. But I think it's really difficult. Difficult doesn't mean it's not worth doing, but it is very difficult to unlearn like lifelong. This is what a relationship and sex should look like, when in reality that was all false, that was all fake, smoke and mirrors.
Speaker 3:I mean, for me it came with just like getting my psychology and therapy degree, but like I would go back and a lot of the time it was like the assignment of like, hey, like pick a movie and like look at it through this lens or like whatever it is.
Speaker 3:But, um, yeah, just learning so much about psychology and how people work and what healthy relationships actually look like, and all of these things I can go back and watch like my favorite like romance movies now and be like like, uh, and from that framework it's easier to untangle when you know the things right. So I guess, like it's a matter of learning the things, listening to the quote-unquote, right kind of resources to be able to, yeah, start watching media and be able to look at it through a different lens of like conflict, well, yeah, and like conflict and sex and drama sell, right, so all of these things are curated not to represent anything healthy, because healthy things are often like boring yeah, healthy doesn't sell. And so to be able to, yeah, frame it that way that, like this is just pure entertainment and yeah, I mean that's.
Speaker 2:I mean all my books that I read, right, like I am not a woman having sex with three ghosts, like it's just right, suspending the disbelief, recognizing things are what they are. And I think that critical thinking piece, I think the difference is in our age and alice is a little bit younger than us. We grew up in a way that the media has played an influence without a lot of critical thinking when we were younger, because it was so new, for sure, right, and that impact, and so I'm hoping for future generations teaching media literacy. Oh, I love that. Teaching critical thinking, teaching resiliency at a younger age to like to think.
Speaker 2:So there's this funny story. So my partner's having a conversation with my six year old and she he was. He argues about everything. He you could say this guy is blue and be like I believe it's purple, prove it. I mean, look at like it's blue. Why can't that be purple for me? Like he's just very argumentative, sassy. But he was arguing with her about who sang a particular song and she said, well, I'm gonna look it up on the internet. And he goes you can't believe everything you read. Like this is a six-year-old. You can't believe everything you read on the internet contrarian king, right. So I I have more faith that my six-year-old will be able to critically think about the internet because he's doing it now, but that's not where we were growing up.
Speaker 3:No, I mean we went from a world with like, yeah, I mean we had media right, but then, like, the explosion of the internet influence like we yeah, we're the only ones who know what that's like to like exist before the internet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but in a critical age of development like I think that's what's key, yeah. Right, because I mean our parents know what it was like before the internet. Right, they lived it more. The difference is in critical age of development, yeah, yeah, but that critical age of development of how that has impacted how we see ourselves and see other people.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Without having the full side, the big picture. Yeah Right Of that picture, yeah, right of that impact. So, yeah, I think media literacy is something that needs to be included in sex education and just education in general, for sure. Um, how do we consume media? How do we question media, like, because I can remember in high school we talk about sources of papers. Right, we'd have to go look in our little books to find our sources for the papers we're writing. Is it a real source? Is this source peer-reviewed? Right, we start asking those questions, start critical thinking how are we doing that in our day-to-day lives? Right? Is this peer-reviewed Hookup culture? Do you have sources? I need references.
Speaker 3:I need your Yelp reviews of your last three hookups.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right. I need your sex resume, please, yes.
Speaker 2:Physicians and proficiency. But I do think that is how we move forward is how do we critically think and how are we reflecting? And also, there's no shame in a media like social media specifically break. I have clients that when they get really wrapped up in my relationship doesn't look like that relationship. I have to take a reset. Yep, they get really wrapped up in my relationship doesn't look like that relationship. I have to take a reset. I need to take a 30-day cleanse of social media because it's impacting my relationship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have to say I'm newly off of social media in the last like three months and my brain feels so different. It's so nice. It's so lovely. Highly recommend a social media break.
Speaker 2:And again you can go back, but going back with that understanding of boundaries, understanding what is being carefully curated, and if it starts impacting your mental health, again take a break. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's hard too, because there's so much like local stuff that gets posted on social media. So it's like, oh, I want to like look at the events that this place is holding and then they've like gotten rid of their website and they only post on instagram or something. And then you end up going on instagram and then you go and you end up scrolling because that's just how the algorithm is and it shows you a little bit of the next post and you end up just like seeing all these like really unrealistic, terrible things and falling to the doom scroll.
Speaker 2:So it's it's hard to even use social media for like a good purpose anymore, you know yeah, so making sure you're in a good space, like if you need it for local events, which I get, that makes sense. Am I in a good space to be able to access this information? And so maybe it's creating a social media that's just for events like, or just for following local stuff, and that's it right, like, and I don't know, but I I think figuring out what that looks like for you, because we definitely oversaturate. Oh yeah, we definitely oversaturate and I think it's hard to. I'm moving into social media and politics for briefly, but I think we get in our vacuum. Oh yeah, for sure, right? I? My social media. I mean, I'm a very, very liberal person. My social media is curated to a very liberal mindset. So when Trump won, it blew my mind, because everyone I know is super liberal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's because my social media is so carefully curated that I've now lived in this fantasy world. That is not our post-apocalyptic society. Sorry, I'm really dramatic.
Speaker 3:But, also.
Speaker 2:There's some dramatic things happening out there.
Speaker 1:My social media is like this anarcho-communist, anti-capitalist thing and they were like bad shit's coming.
Speaker 2:And I was like, okay, that's fine, and so just knowing we exist in a vacuum based on our social media, like independent of politics, but like our social media is a vacuum, yeah, so being mindful of that as well yeah, social media is a vacuum.
Speaker 3:Happy to be out of it.
Speaker 1:It's also the devil it's I mean it's also real cute cool memes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's like so much cute stuff on the internet, right, but like it's also being used as a tool. It's being used as a tool and I no longer want to be used as a tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my kids know random song from social media. So I I don't have tiktok. Like, I have instagram, only I don't scroll it with sound on in front of the kids. I don't even really scroll in front of kids, but do you remember that? Oh no, oh no, oh no. My kids will do that and they're like I want to hear the tiktok song and I'm like how do you know a tiktok song? Like where is this from? Yeah, probably kids at school, yeah, probably. But it's just one of those things. I'm like what is happening? How do you know a tiktok song? Anyway, we've made things kind of doom and gloom, right. So what about positive media? What about healthy depictions? I think, alice, you mentioned a show, what was it called? Again, I believe it was called Easy.
Speaker 1:I watched it like maybe 2017. But yeah, it was really good. I think it was on Netflix. Don't get Netflix, though. You should pirate, because I love pirating and thank you.
Speaker 2:We will never give you Alice's information, FBI, if you can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you. I love that. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3:I love that. Yeah, I'm also just saying I'm taking a huge break from media in general right now, like I'm not besides reading, I'm like not doing a whole lot, and also I feel like things are so nuanced, right, like I liked Nobody Wants wants this, but it's nuanced. It still wasn't, you know. It like did show some healthier depictions of like a relationship and like a secure person with an anxious person, but also like there was a lot of weird representation of the jewish community and like there was, you know, like there was just a lot going on, there's a lot going on everywhere, and like it gets so bogged down with nuance sometimes I'm just like I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think we're talking about positive media is or at least a porn I think looking at ethical porn usage? Oh yes, are they showing negotiations up front? Are they explaining everyone's limits? I follow a sex worker on Instagram as we talk about social media and she's very clear with her clients. The position she does not do Like up front she's like these are the things that I don't do.
Speaker 2:So if you are into that, that's great. Let me refer you to someone else, and so we. I want to see more of that, and so, as you're being critical with what your porn usage looks like, I think it's important to have to see those negotiations. Are they showing aftercare? And I think that can be really positive right to show healthy ways of having that conversation. But if you're in a state with no porn, get a vpn. Yeah, pirating vpns like it's fine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the world we live in that is the world we live in bring back pirates. Um, I would, I would like to, I would like to at some point do a part three on this, where we have much more to say about some healthy representation and maybe making that a point to. I mean, I know, for my own brain, I actually just need to start like participating in more positive based things anyways. Yeah, so maybe we can look at that in the future.
Speaker 2:What would be really helpful, I think, is talking to a mental health professional who is a content creator, and how do they balance that? Oh yeah, look for the positive, because there are people that use it in a really cool way.
Speaker 3:Sure, um, that's helpful yeah, that'd be a great idea in the future, in the future, uh, but we got.
Speaker 2:We got a lot of episodes coming yeah we do so just sitting. So our tidbits today is flared bases brought to you by Positive Vibes, brought to you by the store that's not set up yet, who knows when it will be, but this whole episode, yeah, was about sex.
Speaker 3:So there you have it. If you have any questions for us or you know anything, you want to share any feedback? I don't know what the what is it. It is podcast at validloveorg.
Speaker 2:Podcast at validloveorg and our social media will be up and running honestly by the time this episode airs.
Speaker 3:We don't have social media up and running, I haven't done anything yet. Oh, I'm not even on, so I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 2:I haven't been hitting up yet. I just haven't gotten there yet.
Speaker 3:We're doing great ADHD organized things over here.
Speaker 2:Once we get into it, we'll get into it. It's just we are making sure that we are showing up to record and we're doing it, we are doing it, we are doing it, but we are super thankful today for Alice joining us. Thank you, alice, and then thank you. I know we lost my train of thought.
Speaker 3:Oh my, I saw it on your face. It's literally just in real time. I saw thoughts leave your brain and body literally all the time.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope everyone has a great day. Bye, bye.
